Who: Alex Edelman, Judy Gold, Peter Yarrow, David Broza, Dr. Benjamin Chavis Jr., AC Lincoln, Terrance Floyd, Brad Lander, Rabbi Amichai Lau-Lavie, Rabbi Tamar Manasseh, Laurie Anderson, Steven Bernstein, Jared Freed, Richard Kind, Nicki Richards, more What: Downtown Seder 2024 Where:City Winery, 25 Eleventh Ave. at Fifteenth St. When: Wednesday, April 17, $75-$180 (livestream free), 7:00 Why: For more than three decades, Michael Dorf has been hosting all-star seders to celebrate Passover, concentrating on freedom and justice. The latest iteration takes place on Wednesday, April 17, at City Winery, which Dorf opened on Varick St. in 2008 and moved to Hudson River Park’s Pier 57 in 2020. Attendees will be treated to a plant-based meal with four glasses of wine as they go through the Haggadah, the illustrated text that tells the story of the Jewish people’s exodus from Egypt. This year’s participants include multidisciplinary artist Laurie Anderson, musicians David Broza, AC Lincoln, Peter Yarrow, Steven Bernstein, and Nicki Richards, comedians Alex Edelman, Jared Freed, and Judy Gold, activist and author Dr. Benjamin Chavis Jr., activist Terrance Floyd, NYC comptroller Brad Lander, Rabbis Amichai Lau-Lavie and Tamar Manasseh, and actor extraordinaire Richard Kind. The setlist is likely to include “The Four Questions,” “Dayenu,” “Chad Gadya,” “Go Down Moses,” and “The Ten Plagues.” If you can’t make it to City Winery on April 17, you can follow the livestream for free here.
“Every year has local and international issues which resonate with the Passover story, and the Palestinian/Israeli conflict — which has historical connections — could not make this year’s seder conversations any more intense,” Dorf writes on the event website. “However, as José Andrés eloquently stated in his recent NYT op-ed, ‘Let People Eat,’ we all share a culture that values food as a powerful statement of humanity and hospitality — of our shared hope for a better tomorrow. City Winery’s seder takes these ancient symbols of life and hope and transcends the normal script using art, music, and humor to bring back some joy while inspiring and feeding our soul.”
[Mark Rifkin is a Brooklyn-born, Manhattan-based writer and editor; you can follow him on Substack here.]
A Graham Nash self-portrait from 1972 is one of two dozens works on view at City Winery (photo courtesy City Winery / Graham Nash)
Who:Graham Nash,Anthony DeCurtis What: Live and livestreamed conversation Where:92nd St. Y Center of Culture & Arts, 1395 Lexington Ave. between 91st & 92nd St., Buttenwieser Hall at the Arnhold Center and online When: Thursday, June 1, $25 online, $35 in person, 8:30 Why: On “A Better Life,” the second song on Now, his first album of new material in seven years, two-time Rock and Roll Hall of Famer Graham Nash sings, “Let’s make it a better life, leave it for the kids / It’s a lovely place, welcome home to the human race / We can make it a better life — one we can be proud of / So that at the end of the day, I hope we hear them say / that we left them a better life.” In his most recent book, A Life in Focus: The Photography of Graham Nash (November 2021, Insight Editions, $60), the musician, visual artist, and social activist explains, “I’ve been taking photographs longer than I’ve been making music.”
Coming off three shows at City Winery in which he played songs from throughout his long and distinguished career, the eighty-one-year-old Nash will be at the 92nd St. Y on June 1 at 8:30, in conversation with Rolling Stone contributor Anthony DeCurtis. Now contains such other tracks as “Right Now,” “Golden Idols,” and “I Watched It All Come Down”; meanwhile, two dozen of his pictures are on view through July 11 at City Winery in the exhibition “Graham Nash: Enduring Images,” including photos of Columbus Circle, David Crosby, Balboa Park, Johnny Cash, Jerry Garcia, Joni Mitchell, Neil Young, and an old house in Santa Cruz. At the 92nd St. Y talk, which can be attended in person or online, Nash will also perform some songs from the new record, demonstrating once again how he’s made this life better for all of us.
Who:Lucinda Williams,Steve Earle What: Book launch Where:Congregation Beth Elohim, 271 Garfield Pl., Brooklyn When: Monday, April 24, $36.84, 7:00 Why: “Yes, my family was dysfunctional, fucked up. But that’s not what really matters to me. What matters is that I inherited my musical talent from my mother and my writing ability from my father,” Louisiana-born singer-songwriter Lucinda Williams writes in her new memoir, Don’t Tell Anybody the Secrets I Told You (Crown, April 25, $28.99). She also admits about choosing not to attend the 1994 Grammy Awards, where her tune “Passionate Kisses” won for Best Country Song, “The truth is that I was not just self-conscious but also scared. I feared that I didn’t belong. It’s a feeling I’ve been trying to shake my entire life.” She has proved she belongs over the last twenty-nine years, being nominated for a total of seventeen Grammys and winning twice more, for Best Contemporary Folk Album for the amazing Car Wheels on a Gravel Road and Best Female Rock Vocal Performance for “Get Right with God.” Her next album, Stories from a Rock n Roll Heart, featuring such songs as “Stolen Moments” and “New York Comeback,” the latter with background vocals by Bruce Springsteen, is due out June 30.
On April 24, Williams, who finishes up a four-show run at City Winery on Tuesday night, will be at Congregation Beth Elohim with another Bruce collaborator, Steve Earle, to discuss her life and career. Williams and Earle have been longtime friends who joined forces on Earle’s “You’re Still Standin’ There” in 1996, on Williams’s “Joy” in 2004, and for a New Yorker interview with performances during the pandemic, so it promises to be an intimate evening, which is organized by Brooklyn’s Community Bookstore. Tickets are $36.84 and come with a copy of Don’t Tell Anybody the Secrets I Told You.
Who: David Broza, BETTY, Bettye LaVette, Paul Shapiro’s Ribs & Brisket, Basya and Saadya Schechter, Mark Vincent, Gary Lucas and the Golem, Modi, Resistance Revival Chorus, Dr. Ruth, Mayor Eric Adams, Congressman Max Rose, Terrance Floyd, Vince Warren, Jason Flom, Lorenzo Johnson, more What: Downtown Seder 2023 Where:City Winery, 25 Eleventh Ave. at Fifteenth St. When: Sunday, April 2, $85-$125 (livestream free), 1:00 Why: For more than three decades, Michael Dorf has been hosting all-star seders to celebrate Passover, concentrating on freedom and justice. The latest iteration takes place on Sunday afternoon, April 2, at City Winery, which Dorf opened on Varick St. in 2008 and moved to Hudson River Park’s Pier 57 in 2020. Attendees will be seated at long, communal tables and have a vegetarian meal with four glasses of wine as they go through the Haggadah, the illustrated text that tells the story of the Jewish people’s exodus from Egypt. This year’s participants include musicians David Broza, BETTY, Paul Shapiro’s Ribs & Brisket, Basya and Saadya Schechter, Mark Vincent, Resistance Revival Chorus, and Gary Lucas and the Golem, comedian Modi, Dr. Ruth, Mayor Eric Adams, Congressman Max Rose, Vince Warren of the Center for Constitutional Rights, and Jason Flom and Lorenzo Johnson of the Innocence Project. Terrance Floyd, George Floyd’s brother, will be asking “The Four Questions”; the setlist is also likely to include “Dayenu,” “Chad Gadya,” “Go Down Moses,” and “The Ten Plagues.”
“It says in the beginning of the Haggadah that one should recount and retell the story of the exodus from Egypt in the language that you understand. The ancient Israelites didn’t know Hebrew, so they told the story in Armenian. Americans read it in English,” Dorf said in a statement. “Our interpretation is to tell the story in the language of the arts, in ways we can relate and truly empathize with what it would be like to be in bondage, to be emancipated, and the universal civil rights we need to continually remind ourselves.” During the pandemic, City Winery livestreamed its Downtown Seders; you can check out the 2021 virtual event above. And it was just announced that the 2023 seder will be streamed live for free here.
Anybody who’s listened to British rock in the past six decades has heard Denny Laine’s songs and his guitar playing, but they may not recognize his name. That’s about to change as he begins a solo tour of City Wineries across the USA this month, including a stop February 7 at the City Winery next to Little Island. (He’ll also be at the Hudson Valley City Winery on February 8 and My Father’s Place at the Metropolitan in Glen Cove on February 23.)
Born Brian Frederick Hines in Birmingham, England, Laine is an acclaimed musician and songwriter who has been performing solo and in bands since the late 1950s. He is a founding member of the Moody Blues (1964–66), singing lead vocals on their number one hit “Go Now,” and Wings (1971–81), which he formed with Paul and Linda McCartney. Among the other groups he played in and/or started were Balls, the Electric String Band, and Ginger Baker’s Air Force, and he’s released a dozen solo records.
Prior to the pandemic, he began putting together “Acoustic Songs & Stories,” an evening of music and anecdotes from throughout his life and career, during which he has played and toured with an inordinate amount of remarkable colleagues. He recently spoke with me over the phone from his home in Florida, where he was preparing to hit the road.
Laine, who is seventy-eight, has an easygoing, casual way about him, sharing jaw-dropping tales that he recounts as if it were just another day, which for him it was. He talks about being inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and hanging out with the Beatles, the Moodies, Jeff Beck and Rod Stewart, Ginger Baker and Jack Bruce, and Jimi Hendrix like it’s no big deal. He’s a musician’s musician, quintessentially British, equally comfortable in the background or center stage. What follows is a kind of prelude to Laine’s upcoming one-man concerts as he discusses getting his first guitar, playing football in the hallway with Jeff and Rod before a gig, writing with Paul McCartney, the unusual genesis of a Beatles classic, and his philosophy of life.
Denny Laine cofounded Wings with good friends Paul and Linda McCartney (photo courtesy Denny Laine)
twi-ny: My very first concert was Wings at Madison Square Garden in 1976.
denny laine: That sounds good.
twi-ny: My father took me for my thirteenth birthday. I’d never seen anything like it.
dl: Well, that was a good day, man, I’ll tell you.
twi-ny: I read that your first concert was Ella Fitzgerald and the Oscar Peterson Trio. That’s not a bad beginning either.
dl: That’s absolutely true. First time I went to see anybody in a theater. It was at Birmingham Hippodrome, I believe.
twi-ny: You must have been a kid, right?
dl: Well, I was working as a trainee buyer for musical instruments, can you believe? That was the only job I ever had, a real job where you had to get up in the morning. So a friend of mine who worked in the record department was a big fan of Ella Fitzgerald, and I was sort of a Django Reinhardt fan at the time.
twi-ny: And Stéphane Grappelli, I understand.
dl: Right. All of that gypsy jazz stuff. He got some tickets, and I went with him. I loved that music. That trio was unbelievable. And Ella was just great. That’s where I started really listening to music, because I’ve now been to see it, you know, it’s like, you listen to bits here and bits there, but it was the first time I ever got to see it and appreciate the professionalism and the talent. So that was it, really.
twi-ny: When did you get your first guitar?
dl: Around that time, I would think. No, probably a year before that or so, when I was in school. And skiffle was around. Actually, when I was twelve, I played my first live show. It was a cheap old guitar, really a cheap guitar. And I played at the Birmingham Institute. I don’t know how I got on it, but I did. I did some Lonnie Donegan song and really didn’t get it properly until later on. But I started being in bands at school and stuff like that. So, I’d say I got the guitar when I was twelve, but I didn’t take it seriously. I went in for competitions; once I got to the finals and then chickened out. But I was starting to plonk around on it. I didn’t know how to tune it in those days. And then a friend at school — his brother was a jazz guitarist — taught me to tune it. It was just a four-dollar job, a cheap old job. But it worked.
twi-ny: So I remember very well at the Garden that night that it was a big deal because McCartney hadn’t played a lot of his Beatles songs since they had broken up. But one of the songs that stood out for me was “Time to Hide.” It was a thrill for me to see that, because here’s this superstar — I knew who the band was because I was listening to all the records and studying the covers. But here’s the sideman jumping to the front of the stage.
dl: [laughs] Well, I was encouraged to do that by Paul all the time. He was trying to drag that out of me, to get me to write more. He didn’t want the full profile all the time. Of course, it was impossible for him because of how famous he was. I know that he got me into that band because I had already been in the Moody Blues, and I’d got to know him years before, in the Birmingham days. I got to know the Beatles a little bit. So then when we moved to London, we really got friendly with him. So I think he got me into that band because he wanted me to be more of a band member, because he used to be in a band, like me. So he didn’t want to be the front man all the time. But of course, he couldn’t help it, you know? But anyway, I started with that song, it was one I wrote, and he dragged it out of me. He wanted me to play “Go Now” onstage as well.
twi-ny: I remember that from the live album and the concert film.
dl: Yes. Because the idea was that we weren’t gonna go on there and have him do Beatles songs and me do Moody Blue songs. We didn’t put Wings together for that reason. We wanted to do something new.
twi-ny: You also were cowriting a lot of songs with Paul. You wrote about half of London Town, and cowrote “Mull of Kintyre.” I still have the 45 for that. Obviously, Paul was famous for collaborating with John. What were your collaborations with Paul like?
dl: Well, again, I knew him and we all grew up on the same music, in a sense, American music. But before that it was all British folk. And skiffle; skiffle was a sort of a mixture of American stuff and English folk. That’s really what it was.
twi-ny: Did you write both the lyrics and the music together?
dl: In the case of “Mull of Kintyre,” he had the chorus. So I went over to his house up in Scotland. I was living over the hill on the same land. I went over for breakfast one morning. He had the chorus, and that to me was the song. So I encouraged him to go and finish it off. He wasn’t too sure about it because he thought, well, you know, I might be assassinated doing a Scottish song; it might not go down too well.
twi-ny: They might call that cultural appropriation today.
dl: [laughs] I ended up doing quite a lot of the lyrics on that song. We recorded it up there and it was a huge hit. It was easy. I never had a hard time writing with him at all. We had the same ideas. We were trying to do something new and it was all something current, based on what we were going through or who, where we were, and who we were hanging out with and whatever. So we all did everything together a lot. We even lived together on the same farm. We would go up there every year to rehearse and get away from everything. For the privacy and stuff. Sometimes we’d go to another country just to take a week to go and write, get influenced by wherever we were.
twi-ny: You mentioned “Go Now” before. People forget that you were a founding member of the Moody Blues, and you are in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as a Moody Blues founder.
dl: That’s because of “Go Now.” The thing is that Paul used to stand at the side of the stage and watch me do that every night because we toured with the Beatles, the second British tour. So he encouraged me and wanted me to do that live again because, again, he’s trying to tell the public who I was. And even to this day, believe it or not, [Moody Blues cofounder] Ray Thomas’s wife, who we are still in touch with, she was trying to convince all the Moody Blues fans who didn’t even know I was in the band. But there was another Moody Blues before them. And some of them don’t even accept it. A lot of people didn’t know Paul was in the Beatles, how ’bout that?
twi-ny: Right! When Paul plays at awards shows, the Twitterites don’t know who he is or say, Paul McCartney was in a band before Wings? If they even know who Wings are.
dl: You gotta laugh.
twi-ny: It’s very funny.
dl: That’s the way it goes; young people coming along, what’re you gonna do.
twi-ny: Another early group of yours was the Electric String Band, which opened for Procol Harum and Jimi Hendrix in ’67. I believe that there was a show in ’67 where Jimi played a Beatles song from Sgt. Pepper and Paul was in the audience, not expecting it because the record had only just been released. Was that the show?
dl: Yeah. He used to always do that. Anytime there was a Beatle in the audience, he’d play, “It was twenty years ago today.” Jimi was just as excited about the Beatles and that era as anybody else. And the fact that he got to come to England, and as Eric Burdon puts it, he became one of us. A lot of the American bands used to come over to London, and me and Paul would go and see them all, me and George [Harrison] or all of us would go and see some of the bands that came over. The Byrds. Talk about David Crosby and all. I met all these people in those days through the Beatles, going out with the Beatles, and the Moodies had parties and all stuff like that.
Denny Laine (2nd from l.) cofounded the Moody Blues with Mike Pinder, Ray Thomas, Graeme Edge, and Clint Warwick in 1964
twi-ny: I mean, that’s quite a historic night. Procol Harum, your band, Pete Townshend, Eric Clapton, and McCartney in the house, Jimi Hendrix playing a Beatles song. Was that just another night for you guys?
dl: Well, no, it was pretty big for me. It was big for me for two reasons. The first reason being is I was supposed to do it two weekends. And the first one I was supposed to be on, my bass player got sick and there’s no way I was gonna go up there. I practiced with the drummer from the Pretty Things, and he got the bass player from that band to come down and rehearse and he couldn’t cut it. So I canceled that particular night. And I heard later on that John [Lennon] had said, “Where’s Denny? We only came to see him.”
Anyway, the next weekend I did it, and it went down really well. And Jimi even paid me a compliment that night at the club. He said, “Oh, I liked your guitar player, man.” I said, “The guitar player, that was me.” He went, “Oh yeah. Sorry, man.” But that was a nice little backhanded compliment. I knew Jimi through Noel Redding and Mitch Mitchell; I knew them from way before. So I was part of that crowd, and especially with the String Band being a folk rock type of thing. That was obviously influenced by the Beatles and George Martin.
But having said that, I always loved classical music too. I was brought up on classical music through my parents and sisters. I was into amalgamating music and joining different styles. The drummer in my first band started ELO with Jeff Lynne, Bev Bevan. So the connection was always there. And so this folk thing was my thing. I ended up hanging around with all the folkies and in fact, on my solo record Say You Don’t Mind, I had a couple of folk players on that. I had Danny Thompson from Pentangle, and I had a couple of other people; we were folk people. Donovan was a big friend of ours as well.
So anyway, getting back to the Jimi Hendrix thing, it went down really well. It was the first time, I think, anybody used pickups on the violins and cellos. We’d already done about a year in Europe, so we were pretty good by then. Peter Asher was in the audience, who is still a friend of mine to this day. So it came back that everybody was really pleased with it. In fact, we got a standing ovation, so it was really cool.
twi-ny: You mentioned Ray Thomas, who passed away a few years ago, and then more recently some other people who you played with or opened for have left us. You brought up David Crosby, and now Jeff Beck, whose death I think was even more surprising because he was just playing on tour with Johnny Depp.
dl: I knew David in the very early days, from the Byrds days, and then I met him a couple of times in America; he was always hanging around doing different things in the same crowd, Laurel Canyon and all that crap. Jeff Beck, when he was in the Jeff Beck Group with Rod Stewart, we used to do doubles with them. I remember doing a double with them where we all got into a fight because the guy wouldn’t let us play football in the hall before the gig started. So we were all part of that London scene. And we had the same agency, Marquee Artists, who brought all the blues players over from America and Europe. And so again, we would play a lot of the same venues, and that’s how I knew them.
twi-ny: You also played in Ginger Baker’s Air Force, so your connections are extraordinary.
dl: Same thing. Ginger and Jack [Bruce] I met in the early days because we were doing the very first Moodies theater tour, it was the Chuck Berry tour. Ginger and Jack were in the opening band, actually, the Graham Bond Organisation. So that’s how I met them. It’s a long story, but it was Steve Winwood’s birthday, and I was down there with Trevor [Burton] from the Move, and Ginger and Eric were down there that same day. We all sat around and had a little bit of a jam. And next party I went to, Ginger was there, and he asked me if I wanted to join a band. So I did that with him. That’s the way it goes, you know?
twi-ny: It’s fascinating. I can listen to these stories all day.
dl: Well, that’s what I’m doing. Telling stories.
twi-ny: Oh, yes, exactly. We’re gonna get to that in just a minute. I want to first ask you about something that is going to lead into that. So you’ve got all these other bands, you’ve got Balls, the Diplomats, and the Moodies, and you’ve put out some solo records, like Japanese Tears Reborn and The Blue Musician. So all those years ago, Paul McCartney is telling you, I’m putting you front and center. You’re gonna sing a couple songs a night. Is it easy to go back and forth between leader and sideman?
dl: Well, I was used to that in the Moody Blues, don’t forget.
twi-ny: Oh, that’s true. Right.
dl: I was the front man in the Moody Blues, so I’d already had that experience. In fact, Wings was like a day off for me because I didn’t have to do it all. But no, I’d already done that. One of the reasons that I walked away from — well, not walked away from — the Wings thing . . . I mean, I was still in touch with everyone, but I just wanted to do my own thing again. That’s all. I’d already put out an album, which was called Ahh . . . Laine, and that came out during the early Wings phase. But it was actually recorded before I joined Wings. It just hadn’t come out. So I’d already done that. It was partly to do with the fact that Paul had that thing with Japan, so we couldn’t really tour for a while after that. Eventually I just said, well, I want to go out and I want to start doing some live work. And so that was it. I started making albums then in the early eighties and played a lot of the instruments myself actually. But I had friends, Rick Wakeman, Chris Slade from AC/DC, on those albums. I basically just did my own thing, thanks to Paul for encouraging me to be more of a songwriter.
Denny Laine will perform songs and tell stories from throughout his career on City Winery tour (photo courtesy Denny Laine)
twi-ny: And so now you’re coming to City Winery with “Acoustic Songs & Stories.” You’ll be playing songs from throughout your career, along with some choice cover material. How did this come about?
dl: Well, it was inevitable because of the pandemic in a way. We all went off the road, but prior to the pandemic, I had been doing some of these things. Because although I’d done the band thing, I was going out and doing a set; the first half was just a selection of songs, and then the second half was the Band on the Run album. I had my band doing all the vocals on all of that. So I changed myself with that for a while, and then I did a couple of solo things I was invited to do and it just kind of caught on. I thought, well, this is easy. This goes down. I have a lot more freedom. I was getting to play songs that I felt like playing off the top of my head or if somebody shouted out something, whatever.
So it was just a more free thing and I enjoyed it so much. And then the pandemic hit, so that’s the way it goes. And I thought, well, I’ve gotta get back out there and do it again. I hadn’t had any injections at that time; it was Paul who talked me into getting them. And so it just was that easy to decide, I’m gonna go out and do the solo thing again. Why not, you know? And that’s what I did. So we booked this especially for that. But I’m doing mainly my own stuff, I’m doing obviously my career.
twi-ny: The songs you wrote and were involved in.
dl: I actually did it not too long ago, where I got to play a lot of songs of my own. It’s sort of a rehearsal. If I do a lot of these things, I can move it around a little bit, add a few extra songs here and there that I didn’t do on the show before.
twi-ny: I noticed that one night you played “Nights in White Satin.”
dl: That was just for a laugh. I don’t know how that came about, but I think we were talking about it and I just threw in a verse of it. I didn’t even know the words.
twi-ny: During the pandemic, I followed numerous British musicians, guitarists and songwriters, who played solo concerts online from home. I’m thinking specifically of Robyn Hitchcock, Richard Thompson, and they play whatever comes to mind. Is that a thing with you guys, with you?
dl: Well, I don’t know, maybe I started it.
twi-ny: Maybe you started it.
dl: I don’t think I’m famous enough to start a trend. But yeah, I was doing it way before a lot of people were, and now everybody’s doing it. We used to do that, don’t forget, in the Wings [acoustic] set, in the middle of the show. So I suppose in some ways we did influence a lot of people in that way. It was a way that Paul could do a couple of Beatles songs without it trying to sound like the Beatles. This is the way the songs were written. You hear them just with a guitar and the voice. And that’s really what I mean. I’m not taking a piano out with me. I’ve got piano songs I could do, but I’m not going to, and it’s just gonna be me and the way the songs originated. The audience likes that kind of thing.
twi-ny: It gets to the essence of the song. You had Springsteen on Broadway. You have Bono doing a tour right now where he’s doing solo songs and talking about his life.
dl: Really? I didn’t know that.
twi-ny: He’s got a book out. He’s doing it at the Beacon Theatre here in New York.
dl: Oh, cool. I think it’s great that people are doing that. You’ve got stories to tell, and you’ve got that connection with the audience more. You can’t have that in a big stadium. It’s like the old days when we used to do all the clubs and all the pubs, you were much more close up to the audience. Going back to roots is always good. That’s how we all started.
twi-ny: City Winery is a really good venue for this. I’ve seen Richard Thompson, Graham Parker, Ian Hunter, Eric Burdon, a lot of your contemporaries there.
dl: Oh, yeah. I’m doing all of them.
twi-ny: Right. You’re playing Nashville, Boston, Hudson Valley, Chicago, Philly.
dl: Yeah, I’m doing all of them. And that’s the point. I’d already booked to do them before the pandemic and couldn’t do them, so that’s why I’m doing them now. It’s a mixed audience, all out for a good time and something to eat, and they appreciate the music. They’re there to listen, they’re there to enjoy that instead of sitting in a crowd of thousands of people.
twi-ny: During the pandemic, I imagine you had a lot of time to think about the songs you would play and the stories you would tell.
dl: The stories, sometimes they come off the top of your head, sometimes you keep repeating yourself.
twi-ny: Are there any stories that you might have wanted to tell but might be a little naughty?
dl: Ah, that’s a bit of a leading question.
twi-ny: Yes it is.
dl: I don’t think anybody wants to hang all the dirty washing out in public. I mean, come on. But no, not really, because Wings and the Moodies, we were having fun. Nothing I’m ashamed of, you know what I mean?
twi-ny: But the Moodies were well known for their parties.
dl: They bloody were, because everybody used to come to our house out in Row Hampton and drink and chat and play music and just hang out. All the music business used to be there. If a bomb went off, there wouldn’t be any music business. I’m telling you. That’s what those parties were like. John Lennon used to be on the door.
twi-ny: Checking IDs?
dl: You know what’s a good story? He said to [Moodies founding member] Mike Pinder, we’re all standing in the doorway there. We had one of those little things you open up through the door to see, you know . . .
twi-ny: A peephole?
dl: Yeah. And John’s standing there, and he says, “Who’s this?” There’s a woman there he hadn’t let in. And Mike Pinder said, “Oh, she came in through the bathroom window.” No kidding. So that’s where that title came from. Even though Paul, I think, wrote that, but somebody climbed up the drainpipe into the bathroom window to get into the party.
twi-ny: That’s hysterical.
dl: I’m not kidding.
twi-ny: On New Year’s Day, you posted on social media the following quote: “The past is what we were; now is what we are.” How do you stay so positive in these crazy times?
dl: It’s not so much positive; it’s just being balanced. Like in the past, we did all that. Now we’re doing this. And that’s what life is. You can’t live in the past, and you certainly can’t live in the future. You live for the moment, and that way you are naturally just positive because you just gotta deal with whatever’s going on now. You talked about cell phones [before the interview officially started], whatever’s the new technology, you’ve gotta get to know, and you’ve got to deal with everybody else in the world. You’ve gotta keep up to date. That’s all I meant. A lot of people have come up with that conclusion because of the pandemic. It’s made people get up and rethink their lives. A lot of people don’t want to go back to the same old job they hated, and they’re starting their own businesses. There’s a silver lining in everything bad that happened.
twi-ny: A lot of creativity came out of the pandemic.
dl: That’s exactly what I’m saying.
twi-ny: The same thing happened in theater. And in many ways, your show is really a form of theater. It’s more than a concert.
dl: That’s the way I see it. I’m starting with the wineries, and I’m going to do the theaters after, just small theaters. It’s nice to have that sit-down thing, where everybody in the audience can hear and see and be part of it.
twi-ny: Terrific. I am so thrilled to have had the chance to speak to you. It was really a lot of fun. Good luck with the tour, with the shows. I look forward to seeing you at City Winery. You’ve entertained me endlessly over the years. I even still have my Wings T-shirt from the 1976 concert. I can’t fit into it anymore, but my wife can.
dl: You’re handing it down.
twi-ny: I’ve handed it down. She also looks a lot better in it than I ever did.
Who: Catherine Russell, David Gilmore, Vernon Reid, Corey Glover, Nicole Atkins, John Medeski, the Millennial Territory Orchestra, more What: Celebration of the music of James Brown and the sixtieth birthday of City Winery founder Michael Dorf Where:City Winery New York, 25 Eleventh Ave. at Fifteenth St. When: Thursday, April 7, $60-$75, 8:00 Why: City Winery founder Michael Dorf knows how to throw a party. For his sixtieth birthday, he is celebrating with some of his favorite musicians, who will serenade him with the music of James Brown, accompanied by fine wine for the special occasion. Among the people who will be taking the stage and performing songs by the Godfather of Soul are Catherine Russell, David Gilmore, Nicole Atkins, Vernon Reid, Corey Glover, and John Medeski; the Millennial Territory Orchestra is the house band, featuring music director Steven Bernstein on trumpet, Curtis Fowlkes on trombone, David Gilmore on guitar, Charlie Burnham on violin, Peter Apfelbaum on tenor sax, Briggan Krauss on baritone sax, Erik Lawrence on alto sax, Ben Allison on bass, and Ben Perowsky on drums. Tickets range from $60 to $75. In a November 2021 twi-ny talk, Dorf said, “I’m a kid in a candy shop.” Fortunately, he gets to share all his sweet treats with the rest of us.
In Indulge Your Senses: Scaling Intimacy in a Digital World, music entrepreneur and philanthropist Michael Dorf writes about opening night at his new club, City Winery: “By then, the smartphone and social-media revolution was underway, and I realized why music fans were showing up in droves. Like me, they had inadvertently let technology disrupt their connection to music — and now they were coming to City Winery to get away from their devices. They were eager to escape their hermetic digital bubble, excited to watch their favorite musicians pluck real guitar strings and slam actual drum skins while also nourishing their other senses — the dramatic sight of a legendary performer up close, the aroma of the winery, the taste of great food and wine, the touch of a nearby friend. . . . Man, it feels great to be back in the real world.”
The Wisconsin-born longtime New Yorker and married father of three wrote those words in 2019 about a 2008 New Year’s Eve concert by Joan Osborne, but he could just as easily have written them today, as the country emerges from a lengthy pandemic lockdown. The amiable and driven Dorf started the much-loved Knitting Factory in 1986 with Louise Spitzer, when he was a twenty-three-year-old Washington University psychology and business graduate. (“We had no idea what we were doing!” he has admitted.) In 2008 he opened City Winery on Varick St., an intimate venue where fans came for food, wine, and music. Among the many acts who played there were Richard Thompson, Kasey Chambers, Robyn Hitchcock, the Mountain Goats, Living Colour, Bob Mould, Nanci Griffith, Eric Burdon, Los Lonely Boys, Lucinda Williams, Todd Rundgren, Steve Earle, Ian Hunter, Ed Sheeran, and Prince. Dorf has also presented “The Music Of” concerts at Carnegie Hall, paying tribute to such musicians as Bruce Springsteen, R.E.M., Led Zeppelin, Aretha Franklin, David Bowie, Bob Dylan, the Who, and Joni Mitchell with all-star lineups, raising money for music education in schools.
In 2020, just before the coronavirus crisis stopped the world, City Winery moved to a thirty-two-thousand-square-foot space on Pier 57 in Hudson River Park. During the pandemic, Dorf and City Winery hosted special livestreamed holiday concerts for Mother’s Day, Valentine’s Day, and Father’s Day and virtual seders for Passover. Early on, Dorf, who also runs City Vineyard, became a vocal advocate for the reopening of bars, restaurants, and music venues, citing numerous inconsistencies and incongruities in government regulations. Following strict CDC guidelines, City Winery is back in business, with music, food, and wine flowing. The upcoming schedule includes Suzanne Vega, John Waters, Betty, Los Lobos, Aimee Mann, and David Broza.
On December 13, City Winery and the Town Hall are joining forces for the seventh annual John Henry’s Friends benefit to raise funds for the educational needs of autistic children; the concert features Steve Earle and the Dukes with special guests Bruce Springsteen, Rosanne Cash, Willie Nile, and the Mastersons.
Dorf recently shared his thoughts with twi-ny on coming out of the lockdown, charity concerts, the future of livestreamed shows, and how great it feels to be back in the real world.
twi-ny: You were one of the leading advocates for reopening New York City, especially entertainment venues. What were the major issues that you felt the government wasn’t getting?
michael dorf: We all agreed, we needed to do things safe. But in the bureaucratic fear in the beginning, there was no practical thinking around seating vs. standing, paid tickets vs. just free music, etc. We wanted to take the smart Dr. Fauci approach to the gatherings, whether it was rapid testing, social distancing, and provide real world producer input so that we could follow what was being advised but dovetailed for live performances.
twi-ny: A lot of people like to knock Sen. Schumer, but he really pushed Save Our Stages. What was his involvement like?
md: People like to bash everyone and that is unfortunate. Chuck Schumer and several others helped enormously to push for our industry. He understood live music, theater, dance, and the impact it was having, not just on our venues, but on all our people, the ecosystem of the live entertainment world. I have tremendous respect for him because of this.
twi-ny: Your virtual seders were a blast. Going forward, will you do some kind of hybrid Passover?
md: Breaking bread (in this case matzah) around the table with other human beings is the essence of the seder. Now, my Passover event, which I’ve been doing in New York City for over twenty-five years now, is certainly not your normal seder. So, I think a hybrid is our future, three hundred people live in on our room in NYC and another few thousand around the globe.
twi-ny: You also hosted several special holiday streaming shows with artists from around the country, and you have livestreams coming up with Jacob Whitesides, Sa-Roc, the Empty Pockets, and Woofstock. Will you be doing more of that in the future, or do you see that coming to an eventual end?
md: Again, our business is to create live, intimate gatherings of people and sell them food, wine, great service, and an experience they will remember. We can’t do that as well virtually (especially the selling of wine), but certainly when it is practical for us to add the livestream for shows and events so that people who can’t travel to any of our venues can partially experience the event.
twi-ny: When you first reopened, what was the reaction of artists and audiences? Was there any initial hesitancy on the part of either or both?
md: Audiences are still a bit hesitant, especially as we live in a world where breakthrough cases happen, even with all our strict protocols of vaccine-only admissions and masks for all unless eating and drinking. Nevertheless, people miss the magic of live entertainment and when you get to it, it is an emotional experience that one misses. Artists are so grateful to be working again and audiences grateful to be entertained. Together, we are seeing lovefests every night with very happy fans and artists.
twi-ny: Were those reactions different at your various locations? Or was the situation pretty much the same in Boston, Chicago, Nashville, Atlanta, Philly, the Hudson Valley, and DC?
md: It is similar. In Nashville, perhaps a little weirder given the local political insanity and freer laws. But for the most part, we have worked hard to push smart policies on admission and staff throughout the pandemic. It’s not over either.
twi-ny: No, it’s not. City Winery is renowned for its vintages. Has the pandemic, as well as climate change, affected your vineyards?
md: Well, thanks for the positive on the wine. The pandemic has only made working in the winery and harvest more difficult from a labor perspective. However, global warming, the fires and temperature out west and in Europe, has severely affected the crop, the yield. The lack of water has made some vineyards not be able to deliver their grapes. It is only going to get more difficult for a supply of grapes, and prices on wine will be going up.
twi-ny: Are you loving your new location on the Hudson? What do you think of your neighbor, Little Island?
md: Love our new location; the entire neighborhood is filled with the arts — architecture, visual arts, cool businesses, and, yes, Little Island is very cool. We are also near the Whitney Museum, the Meatpacking District, the High Line, and so many other cool buildings.
twi-ny: City Winery has always put on terrific benefit shows, raising money for music education in schools with your annual “The Music Of” concerts at Carnegie Hall. Next up is Carly Simon in March, with Darlene Love, Livingston Taylor, Bettye Lavette, Jimmy Webb, and more to be announced. Can you share who might be feted in the future?
md: I’m a kid in a candy shop, thinking about the future shows at Carnegie. The music of Stevie Wonder, CSN, Dolly Parton, U2, Sting, so many other great songwriters out there to do. There are so many artists that love them and want to pay homage to them. And there remains much-needed cash to the music programs that serve undersupported youth in schools around the country.
twi-ny: On December 13, you’re teaming up with the Town Hall for the seventh annual John Henry’s Friends Benefit, featuring Steve Earle & the Dukes and several of his amazing colleagues. What can you tell us about that show and the charity?
md: We have done this to support our friend Steve Earle, who is really the hero of this evening. His son is autistic and goes to the Keswell School, which this benefits. Steve makes the importance of this real by explaining to the audience the severity and challenges and why we need to support this program. It’s very powerful stuff, and this year’s show is going to blow people away. It feels great for all of us at City Winery to help raise these important funds.
twi-ny: You seem to have been going nonstop for decades; do you ever take a break? When you’re not at City Winery, what cultural things are you doing elsewhere?
md: I like to hike, need to hike. I like to golf, need to golf. I like wine, I like my kids, I like my friends. But I love what I do. I love creating spaces where people can gather, indulge their senses, and creating lasting memories. It keeps me going, and we have a lot more still to do and grow. Five new locations in 2022 and many more before I am done.
