twi-ny talks

TWI-NY TALK: KIRSTEN HOLLY SMITH AND JONATHAN VANKIN — FOREVER DUSTY

Kirsten Holly Smith sings her heart out as she channels legendary British singer Dusty Springfield in FOREVER DUSTY (photo by Joan Marcus)

New World Stages
340 West 50th St. between Eighth & Ninth Aves.
Wednesday – Monday through March 3, $69-$79
www.foreverdusty.com
www.newworldstages.com

After more than seven years and several transformations, the hit off-Broadway musical Forever Dusty has settled comfortably into its home at New World Stages, where it opened in November and is currently scheduled to run through March 3. The biographical show examines the career of Mary Isobel Catherine Bernadette O’Brien, better known as British singing sensation Dusty Springfield — dazzlingly channeled by Forever creator Kirsten Holly Smith — from her childhood to her superstardom through her death in 1999 at the age of fifty-nine. The ninety-minute musical also delves into Springfield’s personal life, including her long estrangement from her brother (played by Sean Patrick Hopkins) and her relationships with women, embodied in the show by a composite character named Claire (Christina Sajous). There are family matters going on behind the scenes, too, as Smith cowrote Forever Dusty with her husband, journalist and author Jonathan Vankin. Smith, who is from Pittsburgh, has previously appeared in such plays as Three Sisters, Of Mice and Men, and Twelfth Night and such films as Isle of Lesbos and Firecracker, while Vankin, who hails from Williamstown, Massachusetts, has written for comic books, the New York Times Magazine, and Salon as well as authoring books in the Greatest Conspiracies series. Below the two discuss their collaboration and their still-growing admiration of Dusty Springfield.

twi-ny: Whose initial idea was it to create a show about Dusty Springfield? What was it about Dusty that drew you to her?

Jonathan Vankin: Forever Dusty is Kirsten’s idea, her vision, her baby. I came on as her writing partner a few years into her process. So on one level, it is Kirsten Holly Smith who drew me to Dusty.

That said, I’ve always been a huge fan of ’60s music in general and, specifically, the era that Dusty came out of — the British Invasion, Swinging London era. I knew about Dusty and of course I knew “Son of a Preacher Man,” like everyone. But once I became involved in this project and started to listen to every song that Dusty ever recorded and watch every bit of film and video I could find, I immediately became a die-hard fan. Our show covers her life story, which was tragic and triumphant in itself and has become something of an obsession for me over the past few years. But sometimes I have to take a step back, put on one of her records, and just let myself be astonished by how unbelievably good Dusty really was.

Everyone starts with her Dusty in Memphis album, and that is an excellent place to start. But I’d also strongly recommend seeking out her other albums from the 1960s, especially my favorites, A Brand New Me, which was her Philadelphia soul album, and Dusty . . . Definitely, her final British album before her relocation to America.

There are some fantastic female vocalists out there today. Adele, for example, is a phenomenal talent. But I don’t think anyone can or will ever equal what Dusty Springfield was able to do with her voice, her uncanny instinct for selecting great material — and her incredible charisma.

Kirsten Holly Smith: Looking back, I would have to say I was naive about where this journey would take me. It has taken a lot of courage and commitment to not give up on this piece. Somehow we just kept going and a few miracles happened. We are very fortunate and excited to be open off Broadway at New World Stages.

The first thing about Dusty that drew me in was her voice. There was a vulnerability, a grit. The soul that I heard in it — I was immediately fascinated. Then came her look: the blonde beehive, the black panda eye makeup, the incredible costumes and theatrical gestures. The whole package pulled me in. I slowly became obsessed. As I started to learn more about her story, it was like gold. I knew it had to be told. She was the first to stand against apartheid in South Africa and was put under house arrest. She was gay when it was literally a crime in England. Her deep love of soul music, which led her to produce a televised concert called The Sound of Motown with Little Stevie Wonder, the Temptations, Martha Reeves and the Vandellas, and others. She in many ways inspired a nation and introduced them to soul and R&B music. You can still strongly see her influence today with artists like Adele, the late Amy Winehouse, and Duffy.

Kirsten Holly Smith and Jonathan Vankin are professional collaborators as well as husband and wife (photo by Monica Simoes)

twi-ny: In doing your research, what was the most surprising thing you learned about Dusty?

JV: Well, as far as surprises go, it’s hard to say because there are so many. After studying her life and career for the past four or five years, I’d think I should know everything about her. But in fact, every time I go back into her story, I find something new. One of my favorite fun facts about Dusty that I think would surprise a lot of people is that she was responsible for the career of a little band some people may have heard of, by insisting that Ahmet Ertegun, the legendary head of Atlantic Records, sign them. Which he did, sight unseen, on Dusty’s suggestion alone. That band went on to have a pretty decent career, despite their funny name — Led Zeppelin.

KHS: I think the most surprising thing about Dusty is that no matter how much I learn or listen or study about her, there is always something new that pops up that I don’t know. Or someone who was close to her will reach out to me or come see the show and tell me an anecdote about her. I am always learning and discovering new things about her, and that is after many years of research. She is endlessly fascinating as a character study. I am grateful that I picked a character that continually inspires me. Not to mention all the cool and lovely people who are now in my life because of doing this project. Thank you, Dusty!

twi-ny: What do you think is the most misunderstood aspect of her career?

JV: It depends on who’s doing the understanding. I think that for today’s generation, it’s very difficult to understand the intense struggles that Dusty faced in her era — being a woman in the music business, especially. Dusty was producing her own records from the start of her career, but she was never given or took credit for it because she knew that the industry, and for that matter the public, wouldn’t tolerate the idea of a woman controlling her own career the way she did. I think that’s very difficult for people in our era to understand — even a female superstar like Dusty was supposed to stay in her “place.”

KHS: I think there was a lot about her career that was misunderstood, but [I agree that] one thing that comes to mind is that she produced her own records at a time when women did not take that kind of role in the studio. Although she never really took credit for it, she really pushed producers in England into that soul sound.

twi-ny: Do you have a particular favorite Dusty song?

JV: Hard to pick one. Like the Beatles, she recorded so many great songs that my favorite changes on an almost daily basis. Lately I’ve been listening to the lead track on her final album, A Very Fine Love (though the original, and better title, was Dusty in Nashville). The song is called “Roll Away,” and given its place in Dusty’s life and career, it’s a very moving epitaph and a beautiful number.

KHS: That’s really tough for me. Dusty literally recorded hundreds of great songs and many of them hits. I would probably have to break it down by decade. Early ’60s: “I Only Want to Be with You.” Mid-’60s: “You Don’t Have to Say You Love Me.” Late ’60s: “Son of a Preacher Man.” ’70s: “Crumbs Off the Table.” (She also recorded a lot of backup vocals in the ’70s under the pseudonym Gladys Thong; I love that. Fun fact: She sang backup on Elton John’s “The Bitch Is Back.”) The ’80s: “What Have I Done to Deserve This” or “Soft Core.” I also love her version of “Can I Get a Witness” and her cover of a Baby Washington song called “Doodlin’.” But . . . if I was stranded on a desert island and only had to pick one song, it would have to be “Son of a Preacher Man.”

twi-ny: Kirsten, you make a lot of eye contact with the audience during the show. In general, how have the crowds been?

KHS: In general, I only make eye contact in the context of there being a live performance that is incorporated into the story. As much as I can, I see the audience through that filter in my imagination. That is, the filter of what part of the story I am telling when I am singing that particular song to the audience.

I am also aware of the audience and how they are responding. I do my best as an actor to just focus on what is happening onstage; listen, receive, and respond to the other actors in the moment. That is my job, and that is hopefully where most of my focus lies during the performance. We move through the story at a fast pace. I do feel that if I am off my game in any way that the audience directly responds to that, so I do my best to be in the moment. Being in such an intimate space as the 199-seat house we are in at New World keeps me very grounded and honest in my work. I can’t really fake it, and it makes me work harder. It’s a good, fertile training ground to make me stronger as an artist and performer. I also think it gives the audience a direct experience with the artist, and I believe that can be very powerful to experience.

JV: I can say that just from being in the crowd myself at quite a few of the performances so far, audiences love this show. People are on their feet at the end of every show, and when Kirsten heads into the lobby afterward, she’s always swarmed with autograph and photo requests — all of which she happily obliges.

KHS: In general the crowds have been really supportive. I do go out to meet the audience in the lobby after the show and people can be very emphatic about the show. It’s delightful and makes me feel like all of our hard work is worth it. The audience members seem to have a very positive and emotional reaction to the story and the music. I get a lot of, “I didn’t know that about her.” And “Thank you for keeping her memory alive.” Or “I loved the music; you brought me back to my youth.”

There are younger people too who are just getting to know Dusty and are coming to the show; they too really love the story and are moved by it. Forever Dusty is a slice of rock-n-roll history and one that I think is really cool for younger people to take in as well. I feel very moved, proud, and grateful when people are inspired by the piece. Art is all about sharing and inspiring people. Theater is a very direct medium for storytelling: There is no filter; you are living the story. When theater is done right, it is truly a very powerful experience for the audience.

JV: What I find most meaningful is when people who actually knew Dusty in her life come to see the show (and there have been a number of them). Inevitably, they have tears in their eyes when they approach Kirsten and tell her that she brought Dusty back for them. What could mean more than that?

Kirsten Holly Smith has been playing to enthusiastic crowds as Dusty Springfield at New World Stages

twi-ny: You wrote the show together. Do you work well with each other, or can it get a little crazy?

JV: To tell you the truth, it went great. Any collaboration has its bumps in the road, but in this case we know each other’s talents and abilities so well that we always knew what to expect from each other and what we each had to contribute.

KHS: Jonathan and I did write this version of the show together. The show was born out of a piece that I started writing in 2005 that ended up being produced in 2008. Then Jonathan and I got together and wrote a screenplay that encompassed more of Dusty Springfield’s entire story. It was a big, sprawling biopic about her life. We went in and did a lot more research, fleshed out the story, added a lot more music. Our screenplay was twice a finalist at the Sundance Screenwriters Lab 2.

While we were writing the film script, we were working on getting the play up in New York, but there was not a lot of movement happening with it so we decided to flesh out the play script that was produced in L.A. (which was a one-woman musical) and create a bigger theatrical piece. This eventually became Forever Dusty, the show we currently have in place, which has five actors and four band members onstage. I am really proud of where it landed.

I think Jonathan and I work really well together. Yes, it can get crazy, but we seem to somehow always be able to work through it. We balance each other out well; it’s a strong partnership.

Jonathan has extensive experience as a writer and editor, and I always learn an immense amount working with him. He’s very detailed about the choices a character makes and why they make them. He has an incredible talent. I have seen few people who can craft a story and character with the depth and ease that Jonathan does. It is truly a gift and honor to work with him. He is more of a mentor to me when it comes to writing. I am a strong ideas person and creative. It can be really fun bouncing ideas around and coming up with dialogue.

twi-ny: Do you have plans to write together again?

KHS: I will always work with Jonathan, but he is busy with other projects right now. I think he just finished a screenplay for a producer and is now working on writing another play for another producer. We have talked about several other projects that could work. I guess time will tell. Right now we are still pretty focused on building Forever Dusty into the long-term success we know it can be. We need all the support we can get right now from the community.

JV: Sure, we’d love to write together again. (And here’s a secret — we already have.)

TWI-NY TALK: STEVE GOULDING OF THE RUMOUR

Graham Parker and the Rumour (with Steve Goulding, second from right) have reunited after more than thirty years

GRAHAM PARKER & THE RUMOUR
Saturday, December 1, the Concert Hall at the New York Society for Ethical Culture, 2 West 64th St., $45-$75, 8:00
Sunday, December 2, the Paramount, 370 New York Ave., Huntington, $25-$49.50, 8:00
www.grahamparker.net

Since the mid-1970s, Graham Parker has been making his unique brand of pub/punk/pop music, featuring smart, incisive lyrics in all-out rockers and sweet, tender ballads. Although he has never stopped putting out outstanding albums and touring with various backing bands or playing solo, the London-born, New York-based Parker came out swinging, releasing a string of seminal records between 1976 and 1980 with the group he is most associated with, the Rumour. Consisting of Brinsley Schwarz and Martin Belmont on guitar, Andrew Bodnar on bass, Bob Andrews on keyboards, and Steve Goulding on drums, the Rumour helped define Parker’s angry-young-man sound on such classic discs as Howlin’ Wind, Heat Treatment, and Squeezing Out Sparks, ending their five-year run with 1980’s The Up Escalator (without Andrews). After thirty-one years, Parker and the Rumour have reunited for Three Chords Good, another exceptional record on which Parker examines the current state of America, taking on the conservative movement, war, and love in these critical times as only he can. (You can stream the new album here.) “I practice mass hypnosis / You’ll get sucked in by osmosis / But here comes my gnostic gnosis / (and guess what my gross is),” he sings on “Snake Oil Capital of the World,” continuing, “I’m suffering from psychosis / But I’ll give you my diagnosis / You need my medicine (in massive doses).” On the lovely “Long Emotional Ride,” Parker, who just turned sixty-two — and plays a musician named Graham Parker in the upcoming Judd Apatow film This Is 40 — acknowledges his past in a song that relates to the Rumour reunion. “I thought I was a cold, cold man / As a writer you have to be / Got to observe everything from a distance / Record it for posterity / But lately I’ve been feeling things / That I’ve never felt before / Maybe I’m just getting old or something / But something broke down my resistance / And opened the door.” Graham Parker and the Rumour will be playing the Concert Hall at the New York Society for Ethical Culture on December 1, with Parker’s previous backing band, the Figgs, opening up, followed by a highly anticipated show December 2 at the Paramount in Huntington with another British legend still making great new music, Ian Hunter & the Rant Band. As Parker and the Rumour rehearsed last week in Poughkeepsie for the tour, which began November 24 in Tarrytown, we corresponded with the irrepressible Goulding, a drummer’s drummer whose wide-ranging resume includes playing with the Mekons, the Cure, Poi Dog Pondering, Elvis Costello, Carlene Carter, Gang of Four, Nick Lowe, and many others.

Drummer Steve Goulding and the Rumour are back with Graham Parker and playing two area shows this weekend

twi-ny: How did you first find out about the reunion?

Steve Goulding: Graham asked me and Andrew Bodnar to play on his new album, so I said, “If you asked Martin and Bob and Brinsley, you’d have a band!” So he did, and much to my surprise, they all agreed, even Brinsley, who used to be hard to get on the road.

twi-ny: Is it something that you ever thought would happen?

Steve Goulding: I didn’t really think we’d get back together until I heard Brinsley had agreed to do the album.

twi-ny: Did you guys gel instantly upon getting back together, or did it take a while to find the old magic?

Steve Goulding: Yes, it was pretty instantaneous. The recording sessions were like buttah.

twi-ny: The tour is about to start. What are your expectations for the live show?

Steve Goulding: I just hope an audience turns up! The show will be more, er, mature. If we remember the beginnings and endings of the songs, and play the bits in the middle okay, I will be happy.

twi-ny: Will it be odd having one of Graham’s other backing bands, the Figgs, opening some of the shows?

Steve Goulding: I think opening the shows may be odder for the Figgs than for us, as they’ve now played with Graham about three times as long as we did. I hope they don’t feel too bad about it.

twi-ny: How is the Graham Parker of 2012 different from the GP of 1976?

Steve Goulding: Graham is probably a bit happier and has a bigger song catalog to choose from. But he’s really not much different from 1976. He still has a certain prickly energy about him.

twi-ny: What about you?

Steve Goulding: I’m much nicer than I was in 1976. And fatter.

twi-ny: Who are some of the drummers who most influenced you?

Steve Goulding: My early influences were Keith Moon, Ginger Baker, Ringo, Charlie Watts — the usual suspects. Later I got into Bernard Purdie, Max Roach, Jim Gordon, Tony Williams, Al Jackson, and a whole bunch more. Everybody I listen to influences me a little bit. It’s hard to stop things sliding into one’s subconscious.

twi-ny: You are also a member of such bands as the Mekons and the Waco Brothers, and you regularly play with such solo artists as Megan Reilly, Laura Cantrell, and Garland Jeffreys. How is your approach to playing the drums different, if at all, in so many musical genres?

Steve Goulding: I try to listen to what people around me are playing and go along with that. The artists you mention are stylistically very different but they all have similar points of reference. So it’s not that difficult to play with all of them. If Sonny Rollins and Slayer were in there, that’d be much more impressive!

TWI-NY TALK: ALVIN AILEY AMERICAN DANCE THEATER

Rehearsal director and guest artist Matthew Rushing and members of the AAADT company are ready for annual month-long season at City Center (photo by Andrew Eccles)

New York City Center
130 West 56th St. between Sixth & Seventh Aves.
November 28 – December 30, $25-$135
212-581-1212
www.alvinailey.org
www.nycitycenter.org

Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater has been captivating audiences for more than fifty years, amassing a repertoire of more than two hundred works from more than eighty choreographers since its founding by Alvin Ailey in 1958 at the 92nd St. Y. The inspirational company returns to City Center in Midtown for its annual season November 28 through December 30, comprising world premieres, new productions, company premieres, and Ailey Classics. Robert Battle is now in his second season as artistic director, having taken over in July 2011 from the legendary Judith Jamison, and he has put together another exciting series of shows. Last year’s all-new program contained Ohad Naharin’s Minus 16, Battle’s Takademe, Rennie Harris’s Home, and Alvin Ailey’s Streams, and they are all back again. The new works for 2012 are Garth Fagan’s From Before, Jiří Kylián’s Petite Mort, Kyle Abraham’s Another Night, Ronald K. Brown’s Grace, and Battle’s Strange Humors. The special programs include Revelations with live performance by Jessye Norman, Anika Noni Rose, and Brian Stokes Mitchell, Saturday afternoon family matinees followed by Q&A sessions, and a tribute to Renee Robinson, who is retiring after more than thirty years with the company. As AAADT prepared for opening night, we asked nine of the dancers which piece they were most looking forward to performing on the City Center stage. (Below photos by Andrew Eccles, Eduardo Patino, and Paul Kolnick; for a chance to win free tickets to the December 12 performance, go here.)

Marcus Jarrell Willis: I think I’m most excited to perform Grace by Ronald K. Brown this season. I’ve been watching the Alvin Ailey American Dance Theater on videos since I was a child, but I never had the chance to see the company in a live performance until just before moving from Houston to study at the Ailey School twelve years ago. Grace was first on the program and I fell in love. So now having the opportunity to be a part of it almost takes me full circle, and I’m thrilled.

Aisha Mitchell: I am really looking forward to premiering Kyle Abraham’s work, Another Night. The choreography is electric and set to music by Dizzy Gillespie. Also it’s the sole world premiere in our repertoire this season, so I’m ready to get onstage and share with our audiences something they have never seen before.

Kirven James Boyd: Our home season is my favorite time of the year because we’re able to perform all of our current repertory as well as a number of returning favorites. This season there are so many works that I’m looking forward to performing, but one of the most important roles for me this season would have to be A Song for You from the Ailey Classics program. This solo is an excerpt of a ballet called Love Songs, which was choreographed by Mr. Ailey in 1972. For the men in the company, being cast to perform this ballet holds the same weight as a woman being cast to perform Cry. For me, this is by far one of the biggest highlights of my career and I’m looking forward to discovering new layers of my artistry through this work.

Daniel Harder: The ballet I’m most looking forward to performing this season is Jiří Kylián’s Petite Mort. I think the ballet is going to present a great challenge for me because it provides the perfect blend of ballet and modern vocabulary and allows me to tap into a quieter sensuality and power. Also, Kylián is an iconic choreographer, so I’m excited to have the opportunity to perform his work this season.

Antonio Douthit: I am so excited that Mr. Battle brought Grace back into the company’s repertory. Grace is one of the ballets I saw when I first joined the company nine years ago and was just in awe of what Ron Brown did with the movement and how he used the dancers in the space. I am happy to be taking on this ballet and growing from it.

Samuel Lee Roberts: I am looking forward to performing Robert Battle’s Strange Humors the most. Having been a founding member of Battleworks Dance Company, I performed the role for many years in the past. Coming back to it will be like seeing an old friend! I also look forward to performing with Mr. Boyd (a force of nature). I am sure that the Ailey audience will fall in love with this ballet.

Yannick Lebrun: I am most looking forward to performing Grace by Ronald K. Brown this season. The first time I saw the ballet six years ago as a student in the Ailey School, I immediately fell in love with it. After joining the company four years ago, I always hoped and wished that it would return to the repertory, so now that I have an opportunity to perform it, it’s almost like a dream come true, because I’m able to interpret a ballet that inspired me so much long ago and that has a deep meaning. I hope the audience is moved by my performance of the work just as I was so many years ago.

Michael Francis McBride: It is really difficult to pick just one work that I am most excited about performing this season because the repertory has an expanding diversity and every piece is so different. If I had to pick three, I would say that I am really excited to perform Robert Battle’s Strange Humors, Jiří Kylián’s Petite Mort, and Ronald K. Brown’s Grace. These three made the list because they are new to this year’s repertory and they challenge me in new and exciting ways.

Sarah Daley: I’m most excited to perform Petite Mort. It’s an amazing ballet that captivated me the first time I saw it and I’m excited to bring it to our New York audience.

TWI-NY TALK: ALICIA JO RABINS

Alicia Jo Rabins explores her personal fascination with the Bernie Madoff scandal in enticing one-woman show at Joe’s Pub (photo by Aaron Hartman)

A KADDISH FOR BERNIE MADOFF
Joe’s Pub
425 Lafayette St. by Astor Pl.
Thursday, November 15, $15-$20, 7:00 pm
212-539-8778
www.aliciajo.com
www.joespub.com

On November 8 at Joe’s Pub, multidisciplinary artist and Torah scholar Alicia Jo Rabins presented the world premiere of her one-woman show, the vastly entertaining A Kaddish for Bernie Madoff. After reading about Madoff when his Ponzi scheme fell apart and made all the papers in December 2008, Rabins became obsessed with the man and his story, spending the next several years poring over seventeen books about the case and meeting with people directly and indirectly impacted by the scandal. In the show, Rabins, backed by cellist and musical director Colette Alexander, percussionist David Freeman, and guitarist Lily Maase, sings, plays the violin, and shares personal anecdotes in a warm, involving, and funny way. She incorporates Buddhist sutra, an actual apology letter written by Madoff, and a Jewish prayer into the proceedings as she examines the situation from the points of view of an FBI agent, a credit-risk officer, a whistleblower, a happy investor, a therapist, a lawyer, and a monk. As she prepared for the second performance, taking place November 15, Rabins corresponded with twi-ny about mysticism, money, Madoff, her marriage to musical partner Aaron Hartman, and more.

twi-ny: The role of belief in things unseen (and often dimly understood) plays a large part in both finance and religion. Did you find anything in your background in Jewish studies useful as you explored the financial world and this story? What do you think it ultimately was that led to your fascination with Bernie Madoff?

Alicia Jo Rabins: I was fascinated to find that, as you said, there is this overlap between the bewilderment and allure of esoteric mysticism and esoteric finance. They both traffic in ultimate intangibles — the idea of energy and the idea of money. But more simply, I was fascinated by the simplicity of Madoff’s scheme, the fact that it wasn’t a complicated series of equations no one could have seen through but a simple lie that the SEC could have easily stopped at any point if they had checked to see if his hedge fund had ever actually executed any of the trades their records described. So it seemed to me that the whole story was more about the financial world’s desire to believe in Madoff than Madoff’s desire to deceive.

Alicia Jo Rabins will be back at Joe’s Pub on November 15 for an encore performance of A KADDISH FOR BERNIE MADOFF (photo by Jason Falchook)

twi-ny: Regarding that desire to deceive, in the show you explore whether Madoff is a villain or just someone who got caught up in a situation that spiraled out of control. What do you think is the truth?

Alicia Jo Rabins: I think the gray area between those two is the interesting part of the story. That, plus the shared responsibility of those who should have known better but didn’t (I’m not talking about ordinary investors but about fund managers, financial advisers, the SEC, and huge banks), and why exactly no one stopped him for decades, is the area this piece explores. I suppose the piece itself, with all its contradictory viewpoints, is my answer to that question!

twi-ny: The opening performance produced a rousing ovation, and you will be performing it again at Joe’s Pub on November 15. How do you think the first show went?

Alicia Jo Rabins: I loved performing that first show — it felt incredible, and somewhat surreal, to be in a room with an audience after two years of working on this piece!

twi-ny: What are the future plans for it? It deserves to be seen by a lot more people!

Alicia Jo Rabins: Well — thanks! I’m already talking to a few producers about bringing the show out west and to Europe, in both museums and theaters — so I feel like the production will have a touring life, which would be wonderful.

twi-ny: Over the last four years, in addition to your Madoff obsession, you’ve gotten married, had a child, and released a pair of Girls in Trouble records. Has it been hard balancing all of these elements?

Alicia Jo Rabins: Oh yes, the balance is a constant struggle, and if it weren’t for my friends, my families, and Aaron’s unflagging support, there’s no way I’d be able to do all this. (And many days I can’t.)

twi-ny: What does Aaron think of your Madoff fixation?

Alicia Jo Rabins: I’ll have to ask him and get back to you. I can say that he did find it quite amusing that at one point our bookshelf had a full shelf of pregnancy and childbirth books, above a full shelf of my Torah teaching books, above a full shelf of books about Bernie Madoff.

TWI-NY TALK: TONY HAWK

Tony Hawk discusses his early days as a pro skater in high-flying new documentary

BONES BRIGADE: AN AUTOBIOGRAPHY (Stacy Peralta, 2011)
IFC Center
323 Sixth Ave. at West Third St.
Through Thursday, November 8
212-924-7771
www.bonesbrigade.com
www.ifccenter.com

Tony Hawk was nine years old when he first got on a skateboard; by the time he was twelve, he was skating competitively, taking off on a remarkable career in which he would win seventy-three events by the time he was twenty-five, then go on to capture fourteen X Games medals, including nine gold. Born and raised in California, Hawk was a key member of the Bones Brigade, a group of young skaters, including Mike McGill, Lance Mountain, Rodney Mullen, Steve Caballero, and Tommy Guerrero, who revolutionized the sport, coached by former skater and videographer Stacy Peralta (Dogtown and Z-Boys, Riding Giants), who documents the history of the team in Bones Brigade: An Autobiography. (The film is playing at the IFC Center through November 8 and is also being released today, November 6, on DVD and as a digital download.)

Now forty-three, Hawk is still one of the leading proponents of skating, through popular video games, tireless personal appearances, and the Tony Hawk Foundation, which builds public skateboard parks in low-income communities. The thrice-divorced Hawk has four children, including nineteen-year-old Riley, who is a sponsored skater himself; his other boys, Spencer, thirteen, and Keegan, eleven, skate leisurely. He also has a four-year-old daughter, Kadence Clover. Hawk continues to thrive in the spotlight; he recently even ate bugs with fellow skater Jason Ellis for a Ride Channel video. Hawk called in from his home in San Diego late last week to talk about the new documentary, making the cult classic The Search for Animal Chin, and eating crickets.

twi-ny: Several guys in Bones Brigade get teary-eyed near the end. What kind of emotions did you experience while looking back at this seminal period of your life?

Tony Hawk: My experience was a little bit different in terms of what affected me so deeply. I love that I was part of that group, but I knew that there was more that I wanted to do, not necessarily being a pro skater but promoting skating and possibly doing my own company as well. I don’t look at my days there as a springboard by any means, but I’ve been through so much since then, you know, in terms of the industry and success, so for me it was more my heartfelt emotions about what Stacy taught me in terms of handling myself and achieving and helping riders. What I took away from that time was that there’s such a good way to approach this as a career and to be a mentor to others by doing so. Stacy left before I left, and that’s when it became clear to me that I’ve got to go do something else.

twi-ny: Like the Tony Hawk Foundation.

Tony Hawk: That’s not something I had in mind back then. It’s just something that evolved with the success and with skating’s popularity.

twi-ny: Something the movie makes clear is how much you all wanted to make Stacy happy. Is there a difference between Stacy the coach and Stacy the director?

Tony Hawk: Well, I think the respect that he has for the subject and for the riders is absolutely the same. I mean, he’s not out to make some propaganda or some insulting piece about the people that he’s highlighting. You can see him as the director working differently just because in the back of his mind he knows the thread of the story. In coaching, he was trying to empower us. In his coaching, he’s just very encouraging in all aspects just so that you become the skater you want to be, not that he’s trying to direct that at all.

twi-ny: You guys made a lot of videos back then, but what was it like revisiting The Search for Animal Chin? Had you seen it recently?

Tony Hawk: I’ve seen parts of it. I haven’t watched the whole thing in a long time.

A teenage Tony Hawk goes for quite a ride as a member of the Bones Brigade

twi-ny: It’s kind of wild to watch today.

Tony Hawk: It was very fun in the beginning, but then the weeks went by and we had to do the sort of acting thing. We just wanted to do the skating, so there definitely was some tension among the team and between Stacy because it was, like, “Why are we doing this lame thing?”, like, this scene, and trying to act, and all we want to do is go skate. I mean, we thought it was a funny idea, but for us, the skating was more the priority.

twi-ny: There are a lot of personal revelations made in the film. Was there anything you learned that particularly surprised you?

Tony Hawk: I think, probably, about Rodney, that his home life was not ideal. I knew of his intense focus and dedication to skating, but I didn’t know how truly volatile it was, that he was at risk of being forced to quit so many times.

twi-ny: His story is probably the most powerful one in the film. Did he always gesture and talk in those roundabout, philosophical ways?

Tony Hawk: It used to be worse. I don’t know how to explain it. Communicating with Rodney used to be much different. If he didn’t know you, it was very hard to break through and understand him.

twi-ny: A few years ago, Spike Jonze’s skate videos were shown at MoMA, taking them to a whole new level, and now we have channels like Ride. How do you think things might have been different if there was a YouTube back in the ’80s?

Tony Hawk: It would have progressed faster, the information would have spread more immediately, and possibly it would have meant more global recognition.

twi-ny: Well, through the internet and the X Games, for example, you’re now heroes to new generations.

Tony Hawk: In the past, the only people who really appreciated skating were the ones who did it, and the X Games created a fan base of people who enjoyed it and came to understand it and appreciate it but didn’t necessarily want to do it themselves. I think that’s when we broke through a ceiling of popularity and established skating as something that was here to stay.

twi-ny: What do crickets taste like?

Tony Hawk: [laughs] They’re not bad. There’s a part two to that video where we eat scorpions and silkworms. Silkworms taste like dirt.

TWI-NY TALK: JOHN BALDESSARI

John Baldessari is once again screwing with people’s minds in latest solo show at Marian Goodman (photo by twi-ny/mdr)

JOHN BALDESSARI: DOUBLE PLAY
Marian Goodman Gallery
24 West 57th St. between Fifth & Sixth Aves.
Tuesday – Saturday through November 21, free, 10:00 am – 6:00 pm
212-977-7160
www.mariangoodman.com

As John Baldessari and I sat down in the conference room at Marian Goodman Gallery to discuss his latest solo show there, “Double Play,” I realized that the cord on my old-fashioned tape recorder couldn’t reach the nearest outlet. Sensing the dilemma, the six-foot-seven, eighty-one-year-old artistic genius said, “Too bad you can’t use that,” and pointed behind me. When I turned around, I saw his 1997 Goya Series canvas “It Serves You Right,” a black-and-white image of a plug beneath an empty four-pronged outlet. Fortunately, the good people at the gallery were kind enough to find a long, orange extension cord so we could get down to business.

“I’ve got to say, I don’t like being labeled a California artist, or a Los Angeles artist, or a Conceptual artist,” Baldessari later pointed out. “I just like it to be artist.” For more than fifty years, Baldessari has been creating provocative paintings, video, and sculpture that combine text and language with art-historical and pop-culture imagery. He’s placed colorful circles over subjects’ faces and filmed himself posing in front of a camera and declaring over and over again, “I am making art.” He’s experienced a kind of renaissance lately, with a well-received traveling retrospective, “Pure Beauty,” that came to the Met in the fall of 2010, and two recent promotional videos that have gone viral, “A Brief History of John Baldessari,” a wildly funny biography narrated by musician Tom Waits, and a Pacific Standard Time short in which Baldessari’s giant head chases actor Jason Schwartzman through the streets of L.A.

For “Double Play,” Baldessari made inkjet prints of enlarged sections of works by such artists as Paul Gauguin, Honoré Daumier, Otto Dix, and Édouard Manet, painted over them, then named them after song titles by Waits, Kander and Ebb, Portastic, Johnny Mercer, and others. “Eggs and Sausage” reimagines Gustave Courbet’s “Portrait of Paul Ansout,” combining it with block type of the title of a 1975 song by Waits. For “Animal Crackers in My Soup,” Baldessari focuses on two of the women in Félix Valloton’s “Three Women and a Young Girl Frolicking in the Water,” making it look like they’re kissing, and adding the title of the song made famous by Shirley Temple.

A careful thinker who punctuates many of his statements with an infectious laugh, Baldessari is a gentle, unassuming man whose striking white hair and beard and mustache stand out in stark contrast to his black clothing. He spoke honestly and openly about art and life, encouraging more questions even as our time together was coming to a close.

twi-ny: You’ve spent part of the last few years looking back at your long career, with the “Pure Beauty” retrospective and a continuing series of Catalogue Raisonné volumes. Do you think that has directly influenced your current work?

John Baldessari: Well, I think it’s always valuable to look at the arc of your career, of what you’ve done and what you might do, and retrospectives can provide that. So do Catalogue Raisonnés. It all helps, to see where you’ve been and where you might go.

John Baldessari, “Double Play: Moon River,” varnished inkjet print on canvas with acrylic and oil paint, 2012 (photo courtesy Marian Goodman Gallery)

twi-ny: In putting together the two new series, you compare yourself to Dr. Frankenstein. How do you go about choosing the different elements?

John Baldessari: The underlying idea is that I always think of language and imagery as of equal value. So very often in my work I have both — sometimes not, but right now I do — but I consider the song title as valuable as the image. What I’m trying to do is not make it easy for people to make the connection between the image and the language, make it a little difficult. Which is impossible, because people want to do that, they want to hook up things together. A few of them, I just look the other direction, like the dog and “Feelings” — that’s like a Hallmark card. But on the other ones, I think, “Moon River,” I mean, come on. But a lot of them, I found out, I went through the list of song titles trying to hit ones that wouldn’t provide a ready connection. And as a result, I have five or more that are Tom Waits; he’s really good at that.

twi-ny: In “Feelings,” for example, you have a dog, but “Walking the Dog” isn’t with the picture of a dog, which confuses people.

John Baldessari: Exactly.

twi-ny: Are the selections random?

John Baldessari: They’re not random at all. They’re very well thought out. I mean, they’re very well thought out in trying to avoid a connection.

twi-ny: And people can make their own connections.

John Baldessari: Of course they will. But then it’s going to be a weird connection.

twi-ny: When I looked at “Animal Crackers in My Soup,” I’m thinking Shirley Temple, and you’ve got the image of two women kissing.

John Baldessari: And you’re gonna start thinking. I kind of played this “fucking with your mind” game.

twi-ny: In regards to Tom Waits, another National City guy, did you know him or his music before the LACMA video or “Double Play”?

John Baldessari: I’ll tell you how the connection happened. I was teaching in a community college, and I had heard that he had attended that after I had left. And then I mentioned it to my sister, and she said, “Oh yeah, he was a gardener for one of my girlfriends,” and I thought, Wow, that’s amazing. And then I was checking around some more, and it turned out he worked in a pizza restaurant that was located in a building that was owned by my father in National City before he began to get really well known.

Somehow I got his phone number — he was living in L.A. at the time — and I called him. I said, “Is this true?” and he started laughing and said, “Yeah, it’s all true.” You know, I’ve yet to meet him. But then, two years back, in Vanity Fair they had that thing in the back they called the Proust Questionnaire, and they had him, and one of the questions was “What was one of the most enjoyable times in your life?” and he said working in the pizza restaurant in National City, California. Isn’t that amazing?

We talk on the phone. He did send me a note, did a drawing about that movie, and he said, “These guys are making us famous.” And I said, “Tom, you’re already famous.”

twi-ny: You famously proclaimed that you “will not make any more boring art.” Recently you stalked Jason Schwartzman in a Pacific Standard Time video and you told him, “Art should be fun.” You seem to be having a lot of fun.

John Baldessari: Yes, I think that’s high on my list. You know, you should enjoy what you’re doing. Well, anyone should enjoy what they’re doing. Not everybody’s that lucky. They get trapped having to make a living; it’s not what they enjoy. I feel very fortunate I can do what I like doing.

twi-ny: Whose idea was it to put your face on the buildings?

John Baldessari: That was kind of a set-up, which I didn’t mind. They wanted to do two videos, one of me, and one of Ed Ruscha — I guess, the two senior artists in L.A., whatever — and I said, sure, what the hell. They went through various names and they said, “How about Jason Schwartzman?” I’m so out of the loop, but all of my staff, young artists, they went gaga. “Jason Schwartzman? How cool is that?” And I said okay. Jason Schwartzman it is. Then the filmmaker came to talk to me, and it was the son of Bob Dylan, Jesse. Then, the way he described it, with this face-to-face, Jason and I, in conversation, I said, piece of cake, I’ve done that. But the structure was all him. It’s brilliant.

twi-ny: In the digital age, it seems that everyone now can be an artist, a photographer, a journalist, a writer, a filmmaker, whatever they want. Is there a lot more boring art now?

John Baldessari: I think one thing, everybody carries a camera with them, in terms of their smart phone, and we never see any physical prints. There are no more photo albums. As a result of that, I’m not interested in taking photographs. I mean, only if I need to. I used to carry a camera around with me. But now I think, why? I have no need to because somebody is going to have an image of this. I don’t have to do anything.

twi-ny: It’s taken away the process of acquiring source material.

John Baldessari: The pleasure. I remember in 1970 I gave my Nikon to my wife and said, “Listen, I have an assignment for you. Go out and photograph — the whole thirty-six-exposure roll — the most boring things you can find. Now it’s not so easy. It’s interesting too, your question. When I was teaching, one of my colleagues was Allan Kaprow at CalArts, and he was very prescient. He said the artist of the future will be an art director. You don’t have to do anything, like Jeff Koons, Damien Hirst, me — you just have the idea. It’s really conceptual art with a vengeance. With conceptual art, you never presuppose that there would be much physicality to it, but my god, it’s physicality overkill.

John Baldessari combines art-historical imagery with song titles in latest exhibition (photo by twi-ny/mdr)

twi-ny: Getting back to “Double Play,” the range of works include Gauguin, Bacon, Dix, and primarily Courbet and Eilshemius. Were you looking specifically for images, or were there particular artists you had in mind?

John Baldessari: About two years ago, I decided I was going to start mining imagery from the history of art rather than from newspapers and magazines and TV, whatever, but going about it the same way. I wouldn’t try to get a good image of the work. I wanted it from the media. And then I’d have a huge library, and so I just started plowing through books, collections, individual artists, on and on and on. What I would be looking for would be something in an artist’s work that would be, in a way, inconsequential. There’s always a hierarchy of things in an artist’s work. If it’s a person, obviously you’re going to look at the person’s face, then you might look at what he has on or how he or she is standing. So I looked for something that seems to be the least interesting — oh, like this; that’s not very interesting, you know, that kind of thing — and then I would map out and isolate part of the image and say to an assistant, “Print all these out” so I could look at them and I would sort through those. I guess what I’d be looking for were things that would be visually interesting — to me, anyway, in a formalistic sense, not just in terms of subject matter — and then hopefully it will be interesting to somebody else, who knows. And then I start going through lists and lists of song titles, and then I play marriage broker in trying to get the two of them together somehow and in some way that provided some tension. You know, not an easy association, as I said, but something that was a little bit more difficult because I think one of the things I like to do is make things difficult for people, not in a burdensome way, but I think I got that idea once from reading Kierkegaard and he said, “My job in life is to make life difficult for people.”

twi-ny: To further the challenge, you don’t always take the most obvious part of the image.

John Baldessari: It’s a bit of an art history test. Yeah, some things are pretty obscure, so I made it difficult in that sense. But I think I’ve got a pretty good sense of the viewer, or the spectator, in having taught so long to support myself. So I couldn’t be so obtuse that I would lose people, you know, the students, or be so simplistic that I would lose the smart people. So I think I know how to be a little seductive but have enough there for the most intelligent person but not lose the average person. And of course, for me a model would be, like, Giotto or Matisse, where it looks deceptively simple but it’s not at all.

twi-ny: You mentioned your teaching. Some of your students have gone on to become famous artists themselves, people like Tony Oursler, who also has such an element of fun in his work.

John Baldessari: Absolutely. David Salle, another one, Matt Mullican, and on and on and on. Mike Kelley.

twi-ny: When you had them as students, could you tell which ones would potentially be successful, not necessarily financially but at least creatively?

John Baldessari: I had one sort of idea and I don’t even know if it’s true but I’ll share it with you. There’s always a kid in school that’s really smart, but I think because of that they’ve worked less hard, and the ones that are sort of a little bit way down, they work harder. Those are the students that seem to become successful.

twi-ny: One of the pieces you mentioned before, “Feelings,” is part of the Artists for Obama Portfolio, which also includes works by Frank Gehry, David Hammons, Jasper Johns, and many more. Why did you choose that piece for the project?

John Baldessari: I didn’t do it in any political way. I just thought, who doesn’t love dogs?

twi-ny: Finally, over the last several years, and in the video with Jason Schwartzman, you use cheese as a metaphor for appreciating art. What is your ideal cheese?

John Baldessari: You know, I think I said gorgonzola cheese because my father was Italian and that was the only cheese he would eat. And then I remember some perceptual psychologist writing about art and talking about tastes in art changing. I wish I had said it but I think it’s very apt. He said, when you start out, if you eat cheese at all, it might be Kraft cheese or whatever, and then you get tired of that and you sort of escalate and then you get to the point where smelly cheeses are all you can tolerate. And I thought that was a pretty good description of how taste changes.

TWI-NY TALK: ROSCO BANDANA

Gulfport, Mississippi, septet is off to quite a beginning, winning Hard Rock Battle of the Bands and releasing debut album

Thursday, September 27, the Rock Shop, 294 Fourth Ave., 718-230-5740, $10, 8:00
Friday, September 28, Mercury Lounge, 217 East Houston St., 212-260-4700, $10-$12, 6:30
www.roscobandana.com

Americana folk rockers Rosco Bandana introduce themselves with a shot of brash, bold honky tonkin’ on “Time to Begin,” the title track of their just-released, same-named debut album. Singers Jason Sanford, Jennifer Flint, and Emily Sholes trade vocals while the rest of the band plays hot grooves behind them, coming together to declare over and over, “Yes, it’s time to begin.” Indeed, it’s quite a beginning for the seven-member Gulfport, Mississippi, group, whose first record also includes the country-blues “Woe Is Me,” the infectious story-song “Radio Band Singer,” the ballad “Long Way Down,” the jaunty “Tangled Up,” and the foot-stompin’ “Black ’Ol Water” (which features a curiously placed apostrophe). Formed by childhood friends Sanford and drummer Barry Pribyl Jr. along with Sanford’s former girlfriend Sholes, the band added Flint, Josh Smith, Jackson Weldon, and Patrick Mooney at wine-bar open mic sessions. Rosco Bandana will be at the Rock Shop in Brooklyn on September 27 with Sasha Pearl and Mail the Horse and at Mercury Lounge on September 28 with Arit and Food Will Win the War. Sanford recently discussed the group and its origins in our latest twi-ny talk.

twi-ny: You’re the first band signed to Hard Rock Records. How did that come about?

Rosco Bandana: We won the Hard Rock Rising Battle of the Bands, and they decided they wanted us to be the first band on the label. They saw something in us that they found promising.

twi-ny: Are you worried about being labeled as a corporate rock band?

Rosco Bandana: No, we will always stay true to our roots.

twi-ny: There are seven members of your group, including three singers. What are the songwriting and recording processes like?

Rosco Bandana: Jason writes the songs. The recording process was a learning experience in which we grew tremendously. Greg Collins is the first professional producer we have worked with.

twi-ny: On your Facebook page, you mention that one of your influences is “other people’s music.” What “other people’s music” have you been inspired by?

Rosco Bandana: Elliott Smith, Wilco, Fleet Foxes, Fleetwood Mac, Avett Brothers, Mumford and Sons, John Harper, Luther Dickinson.

twi-ny: You’re going to be in Brooklyn on September 27 and the Lower East Side on September 28. What kind of expectations do you have for these NYC shows?

Rosco Bandana: We expect a good response, since new York is notorious for launching newer, uprising bands.

twi-ny: Dare we ask where the name came from?

Rosco Bandana: We wanted something symbolic of America. That’s where we got Bandana. We got Rosco from a Midlake song [“Roscoe”].